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Naveen Jain joins Tim Gray to make the case that most chronic disease is a matter of choices, not bad luck. They cover why Naveen believes big problems are easier to solve than small ones, why he moves into a new industry roughly every decade, why he argues microbial function matters more than microbiome diversity, and how RNA sequencing differs from the DNA based gut tests most people use. Tim also shares his own Viome results, from a recommendation to avoid spinach that he later connected to his own oxalate issues, to signs he may have been fermenting protein, and the two discuss  faecal microbiota transplants, using AI as a daily health partner, and why Naveen believes there is no such thing as a food or supplement that is healthy for everyone.

In this episode, we explore:

➡︎ Why Naveen is still building Naveen explains why he sees money as a byproduct of improving people’s lives, and why he believes obsession, not passion, is what gets you out of bed every morning.

➡︎ Moonshot thinking and switching industries Why Naveen thinks audacious problems attract the best people and the most funding, why he has never started two companies in the same industry, and why asking better questions matters more than having answers in the age of AI.

➡︎ Is illness optional? Naveen explains what he means by making illness optional, why he argues chronic disease develops through biochemical changes we can track, and why he believes good health in the Blue Zones has little to do with wealth.

➡︎ Why one size fits all diet advice has failed Naveen discusses soil depletion, shelf stable food, and why the same food can help one person and harm another, or even help you at 20 and harm you at 40.

➡︎ Microbial function over microbial diversity Why Naveen argues the same organism, from E. coli to Akkermansia, can be helpful or harmful depending on what it is doing in your gut.

➡︎ DNA versus RNA gut testing Naveen walks through culturing, 16S and metagenomics, and explains why Viome uses RNA sequencing to see which genes your microbes are actually expressing.

➡︎ Becoming CEO of your own health Naveen and Tim discuss the incentives in the medical system, the rise of consumer testing, and how both of them use AI to make sense of their health data.

➡︎ Tim’s own Viome results Tim shares how his first test recommended avoiding spinach, which he later connected to his own oxalate issues, how his retest suggested he may have been fermenting protein, the foods his microbiome responds to, and why he shared his results with the provider for an upcoming faecal microbiota transplant.

➡︎ No universal healthy food or supplement Naveen explains why he believes supplements like NAD can help some people and harm others, and why you should be wary any time you hear that everyone should do something.

➡︎ Faecal microbiota transplants and their risks Naveen discusses why he believes a donor’s health traits can be passed on through FMT, and Tim explains why donor screening matters so much.

➡︎ The future of medicine Naveen shares why he believes data and AI will transform chronic disease within the next decade, and why he thinks the future of medicine will come from a farm, not a pharmacy.

Naveen Jain is an Indian born American entrepreneur and the founder and CEO of Viome Life Sciences, which he founded in 2016. He previously founded InfoSpace, Intelius and TalentWise, and in 2010 co-founded the lunar exploration company Moon Express, where he is executive chairman. Viome analyses gut, oral and blood samples using RNA sequencing technology originally developed at Los Alamos National Laboratory and exclusively licensed to the company, with the stated mission of making illness optional.

Highlights:

00:00 Intro

01:42 Why Naveen Keeps Building When Most Billionaires Retire

02:46 Passion vs Obsession

03:42 Why Big Problems Are Easier to Solve Than Small Ones

05:26 Growing Up With Nothing to Lose

06:48 Define Your Moonshot

07:38 Why He Changes Industry Every Decade

11:06 Is Illness Really Optional?

14:23 Health Without Wealth: Lessons From the Blue Zones

16:40 What Science Gets Wrong About Chronic Disease

18:57 Why Dietary Advice Has Failed

21:47 Microbial Function vs Microbiome Diversity

25:05 Why Doctors Resist New Science

26:25 The Sick Care Incentive Problem

26:50 Becoming CEO of Your Own Health With AI

30:15 What Other Microbiome Tests Miss

34:19 DNA vs RNA, Explained

37:15 Tim’s Own Viome Results

42:33 There Is No Universal Healthy Food or Supplement

43:55 Root Causes, Not Symptoms

45:55 The Hidden Risks of Faecal Transplants

48:42 The Future of Gut Health and Medicine

50:03 One Thing to Do Differently Today

51:20 Quickfire Round

Connect with Naveen here:

Research and Studies:

Resources & Products Mentioned:

A huge thank you to Viome for sponsoring this episode!

I’ve personally taken the Viome test twice, and what impressed me most is how it turns complex biological data into personalised insights about my health. Because the truth is, what works for someone else might not work for you — even when it comes to foods we consider healthy. Viome uses advanced RNA sequencing and AI to analyse activity in your gut microbiome, going beyond which microbes are present to explore what they’re actually doing. Based on that information, it provides personalised food and supplement recommendations. It’s exactly why I always say: test, don’t guess.

If you want to move beyond generic health advice and better understand your own biology, head to viome.com and use code TIMBIOHACKER at checkout for your discount.

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This is the Health Optimisation Podcast with your host, Tim Gray, the UK’s Leading Biohacker. This podcast brings you the latest in health optimisation, featuring experts and breakthroughs in nature, biohacking, technology, and longevity research. Join us to discover actionable advice for living longer and healthier.

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